Move Suggestion[]
I would not recommend moving this. I think that simply explaining the name issue would be best, keeping it here, since this is where people would look for it. --Xizor 08:58, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
- I agree. Whatever the case, "vulture" is still a canon title. If there's an English title we can use, we should use it. — Hylian King [*] 09:08, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
- Agreed for reasons already stated! --Dany36 11:44, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
It's not canon any more than saying that a Keese should be called "Bat" just because it's described as a bat, or that Stalfos should be called Skeleton because they're called skeletons sometimes. Just because something is given a descriptive name does not always make it a canon name. Is it ever capitalized anywhere? That's usually the key to whether something is just a name or a description. Also: redirects exist, so that's hardly an issue. I don't get this obsession with using "English" titles when 99% of the enemies on the wiki have nonsense names like Keese, Rope, etc. Usually if a name is descriptive it's not canon at all.
Finally, this enemy's appearance in FSA is a lot less "vulture" like and has elements of Kargorok, AND Skyward Sword has other vulture enemies called Hrok. Saying this enemy is called "Vulture" when that's not it's official name seems unusual. There is no English name, just a Japanese one, and an English description, and for all other enemies we go NAME first, whether it's English or Japanese.※Fizzle (talk) 13:24, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
- They're not "nonsense names", they're proper nouns. Proper nouns that are used in the game and so most readers will know of them. In any case, "vulture" comes from a title in the credits. All the letters are uppercase, so we can't determine whether it was a "decriptive name" or a "canon title" as you say. — Hylian King [*] 13:44, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
- Well, given it's the same in the Japanese version where it is otherwise called Tendoru, we CAN assume it was simply a description, that's my point. Otherwise they would be called ハゲワシ (Hagewashi), Japanese for vulture. And, um... "Keese" is not a proper noun, no more than Tendoru is, not sure what you mean there. I think maybe you misread me? ※Fizzle (talk) 14:08, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
- I'm not sure what the big deal is. I don't want to be that person, but in our canon policy, it's stated that English > Japanese. Since these enemies are given a name in English, we go with that, since that's what the readers know it by and that's what they'll look it up by. If they hadn't been given a name in English, then yeah, we would move it to its Japanese name. It may be vague, but that's what we work with. --Dany36 15:58, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
- I guess my point is that it's no more a real name than a guide lazily referring to a random enemy as an "eye monster" means it's called Eye Monster. It's not really a name so much as it is a description, the fact that it's transplanted directly from the Japanese game just furthers that thought. I don't want to make a big deal over it since I'm clearly in a minority of one here at the moment, I'm just trying to explain my logic. I don't think "Vulture" is the name of this enemy and never got that impression from the ending credits. It's a description, rather than a name, so it's a vulture monster called Tendoru. I'm not trying to discount the credits by the way; the Flute Boy for instance is definitely called the Flute Boy and nothing else. Nor am I going to demand that pages like Rat get moved. This isn't the same as either, in my eyes.
- I'm willing to concede defeat for now, but I do think my logic is sound, really, and having this page stick to this name seems sort of inconsistent. Oh well. ※Fizzle (talk) 23:09, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
- I can't speak for the others, but I do appreciate the pickingness when it came to you moving ALttP enemies who had absolutely no English name whatsoever (even if fansites had made up their own) to their Japanese names. I don't think anyone else would have bothered with it, but now we're a bit more truthful in those aspects. This will have to do for now for this page, though! --Dany36 01:31, 27 July 2012 (EDT)
- It's no problem! It's my favorite game, yet most of the enemies have been known under fan names for so long now since many of them simply didn't show up again. Many of the fan names gave the wrong impression, like "squirrel" and "lizard" (this one isn't as bad as that, at least it's accurate! Definitely a vulture). I hope people do see that they have proper names, even if they weren't translated (anywhere we know of, anyway). The problem with fan-created names is that it's very hard to say which one to go with, since they're hardly consistent. I don't expect people to stop using them entirely, but most people who play Zelda games probably just refer to enemies by what they look like anyway. The wiki is for people who want to know more, that's why I'm picky I guess!
- I'm grateful everyone let me do that, too. There are some wikis out there that from the outside seem to care less about accuracy and more about keeping a status quo, which seems bad for the fan community as a whole to me. So thanks! This wiki is really well run and a more than worthy member of the NIWA. ※Fizzle (talk) 10:03, 27 July 2012 (EDT)