I don’t think it is necessary to mention the Hylian knights since being a knight simply makes you part of an army not different from other members of your race. We shouldn’t include the Hylian Knights in this article anymore than we should include Hylian Blacksmiths, Hylian shop keepers, or all the other occupations they get into.
Yeah, they should be given their own article (the Knights).
Why, when I look at pages for characters whose race was never specified, is the race designation Hylian? Is it the general policy here to automatically consider a character a Hylian until proven otherwise? Just wanna know... Bek The Conqueror 04:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
The ears, dude. Of course, the characters having pointy ears may not be conclusive evidence that they are actually Hylian and not of another race with pointy ears. But it's the only choice we got, really.
Bek The Conqueror– "Have you ever seen a drunk baby? It's a long story involving my son, a rum cake, and a low counter. Suffice to say that it turns out at first it's endearing to watch them bounce off the walls but man, you take your eyes off them for one second and bam! They've got a bucket on their head and they're plowing through your brand new flat screen TV. God save me, it was barely out of the box." -Dr. Perry Cox TALK
But what about characters from the 2D games? The ears aren't really well defined there...
I've already given the (as I've been told) "correct" opinion on that site and in the article itself. My question is this:
Which should we use for the race of Hylians from Termina?
Terminan (keep it the same)
Hylian (technically correct)
Hylian (Terminan) (compromise)
Hylian ("Terminan") (quotes because the term is not official)
In my opinion, 2 is best, as the homeland of Termina is given, but I'll settle for 3 or 4. 5 is a bit of a stretch. 1, I suppose, is a possibility if everyone is way too lazy, but it should be corrected.
Umm, excuse me. You're basing the completely unwarranted move of a popular page on a discussion on Minimalistpedia? I don't get it. I opt for the "Terminan" usage, but I guess since no official source ever cites this name (thus making it as official as the guy who tried making an article for "Holodrumanics" the other day) we can't really use that. I would suggest "Terminan Hylian", but that's just me.
Sure, "Terminan Hylian" works for me. It is moving the page, but as we agree, "Terminan" isn't used by any sources, so let's be consistent. I do think that "Terminans" deserve at least a section, though, as the term is common.
Time to change a bunch of infoboxes...
P. S. What about characters in both OoT and MM (Dampé, for example)? Should we just use "Hylian", or "Hylian (blah blah)...Terminan Hylian (Majora's Mask)"? The second sounds awkward, and people might disagree with the first, so how about "Hylian (known as Terminan in Majora's Mask)"?
All right, time for some flawless, unescapable logic.Humans and Hylians are two species, That's been made clear by the ears, then calling them Teminan Hylians is for lack of a better word, idiotic. Do we call humans living America "American Humans"? No, we just call them Americans.User:Redeadhunter
I'd like to point out that Termina is a parallel world to Hyrule, so this issue is kinda moot.
Pointy eared people in Zelda games are indeed Hylians though. However since this is a parallel universe, they could be called anything really.
It just struck me that the reason for the ears is that although the wanted to give link ears, they didn't have the graphical capability to round them. Opinions?
they wouldnt make it soprominint in the offical art work and have you seen the size of links ears comparded to other people in zelda ii? OniDark Link
Awesome! I remember those pictures from the original guide book. I've misplaced mine since I have moved around quite a bit, so it's wonderful to see them again. Any plans on adding more information from the guide? //Khanson
Xykeb Zraliv– 11. “But rejoice, Arrogant Man, for I have provided another opportunity to fight your fate. Simply defeat your successor and return to my side.” TALK– it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
I disagree that the residents of Termina are so called "Terminan Hylians". This view seems biased towards the Hylians - we seem to be taking things solely from their perspective. Yes, Hyrule was named after the race - but what if that's also the case of the Terminans (as I will call them unless somebody offers me a reason to change my opinion)? What if they called themselves Terminans and then named the land Termina? From their perspective, the Hylians are therefore "Hylian Terminans". Yes, biologically they are the same race, but the term "Terminan Hylian" seems wrong to me for the reasons above. It just seems like we're delving too deep into technicalities and ending up with barely correct results.
Hyrule was named after Hylians? Erm? Another canonical guidebook thing? No matter.
The term "Terminan Hylian" is used for people who are assumed to be Hylians (yay, another gross act of possibly, or should I say probable wrongful deduction...I don't think pointy ears equals Hylian by default) and are from Termina. Not all Terminan inhabitants. And wait...you're claiming that it's "biased"? That might just be some awkward wording on the part of whomever originally coined the term Terminan Hylian. And yes, I am very aware that you knew all of this already; it's just because I have no argument (neither does anyone else) I thought I'd nitpick instead.
That being said, I really don't care either way, so just go ahead and update all the pages to reflect whatever you feel like calling them. There will never be a conclusive answer to this and one person's word is both as good and as bad as the other.
Xykeb Zraliv– 5. But the Bridgekeeper was fearful, for the Guide had clad the Thief-Wife in the vestments of the Father, and the Thief-Son in those of the Brother, and the Bridgekeeper sobbed in his confusion. TALK– it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
What the term "Terminan Hylians" implies is that Hylians named the land after the race, but that Terminans were named after the land, thus making them "technically" Hylians. What it fails to take into account, however, is that it is just as likely that the Terminans named their land after the race, thus making them biologically the same race, but with two different names, making "Terminan Hylian" a biased term (in my opinion), since it's implying that "Hylian" is the base name of the entire race.
Also, I'd rather get some support from people before changing it...wouldn't do to have a whole bunch of people disagree with me after changing it all and then have to change it back.
EveryDayJoe45– "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."--Benjamin Franklin TALK
Are you suggesting that we make up some random name for them like Telias? Because if so, that is absurd. If you are proposing they should just be called regular "Hylians", than I sort of agree.
Xykeb Zraliv– 3. And when he saw what had become of the Spying Thief, the Covetous Thief was consumed with Fear, and with the Fear came rage. “I will not follow the Spying Thief in Death; I will not follow. I curse this house and all of us, for in our sin we have cursed ourselves.” TALK– it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
Absolutely not, my entire argument is against relating them to the Hylians at all. I say we should simply call them Terminans.
Hmmm, well I sort of disagree. Hylians are not named Hyruleans, they are named Hylians. Now with that said, Gorons, Zoras, Deku, and Gerudos are all called the same in both games. So wouldnt that mean that Hylians should be the same as well? I mean Terminans probably means every inhabitant of the land of Termina.
Xykeb Zraliv– 4. And the Guide who was the Cunning Thief gathered together his Thief-Wife and Thief-Son, and in the house that was the Mind of the Bridgekeeper, they called to their host. TALK– it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
Er...that actually makes a whole lot of sense. Fine, Hylians it is.
EveryDayJoe45– "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly."--Robert F. Kennedy TALK
Well this will undoubtedly be too hard to fix all in one sitting. So unless you have a better plan, all we can really do is change it when we come upon changes we need to make.
Are those really official pictures of Hylians? They look so phony.02:46, 13 July 2009 (UTC)MaloMart (talk)
"Hylia People" is a perfectly good redirect here. "Hylia" is also a pretty good idea for a redirect. The only thing is "Hylia" could also be a disambig page that gives links to here as well as Lake Hylia. Its up to everyone else.
Xykeb Zraliv– 3. And when he saw what had become of the Spying Thief, the Covetous Thief was consumed with Fear, and with the Fear came rage. “I will not follow the Spying Thief in Death; I will not follow. I curse this house and all of us, for in our sin we have cursed ourselves.” TALK– it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
If we have disambigs on stuff like Swamp, I think Hylia should be a disambig.
I agree with everyone else. Although it should be noted that in the ALTTP/Four Swords translation the people were directly mentioned to be Hylans, rather than "the Hylia".--ShutUpNavi (talk) 17:30, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
I understand, obviously, why Lake Hylia was named that, but how did they get Hyrule? Shad even calls Hylians "the people of Hylia". 220.127.116.11 00:12, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
"Hy(lian) Rule?" I don't know. --AuronKaizer! 00:28, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
So I was thinking, why exactly do we differentiate the hylians of Termina like this? We don't do it for other regions, like Holodrum and Labrynna, which have a few Hylians dotted around. For example, the oracle Nayru. She's obviously Hylian, but she's in Labrynna, so why isn't she called a 'Labrynnan Hylian' or something? Just curious
EveryDayJoe45– "Every man dies; Not every man really lives"--William Wallace (Braveheart) TALK
We don't really have a good reason to be honest. Fixing all of the links at this point would be a nightmare though. Not sure what to do.
Well, if you want to change it to like 'Labrynna Hylian' and change all the links, I could do it if you want. I'm 13 and don't do my homework, and to lazy to write my story. I have nothing better to do. And I'd love to get my edit count up. I'm pretty sure I can do it. And if I get stuck on something, I'll ask for help on how to do it. But I'm pretty sure I can do it.
EveryDayJoe45– "I figured that if I said it enough, I would convince the world that I really was the greatest."--Muhammad Ali TALK
Ok, well Labrynna Hylian doesn't exist. They are Humans. Same with Holodrum. And we would use a bot for this. The issue would be tracking down the double links on pages.
I remember that! Yes, well I believe that this statement is a hyperbole.
Proceded By Humans
Ok in Ocrania of time at the end of the game zelda sends link back ten years to his childhood this causes her to crete 2 seprate timelines one where hyrule was invaded by gannan and one where link was able to prevent gannon from invadeing hyrule. in legand of zleda the windwaker takes place in the adult timeline that is why many hylains are gone. However in the child time line Link was able to warn the young zelda who then told her father and gannon was captured and sent to the twilight realm that is why hylains are still the dominite race in the twilight princess becuse of the two sepreate time linesthe two seprate time lines are two difrent endings the wind waker relatesd to the adult ending whiel the twilight priness relates to the child ending.--DeirdreKent101 (talk) 14:47, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
If Twilight Princess is in the child timeline, how does it support humans not proceeding Hylians? If I'm not mistaken humans are becoming a dominate race during TP, thus showing that they will proceed the Hylian race. What evidence is there that the trend will not continue to prevent humans from proceeding Hylians? --Birdman5589 (talk) 18:34, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
That were your wrong the child time line is an entire difrent realtiy humans prescede teh hylians in the ADULT TIME LINE AND IN THE ADULT TIMELINE THE GODS FLOOD HYRULE while in the childtime line the flood never happned if you look on the npc in catstle town a MARJORITY HAVE pointed ears there for humans are not the dominte race and the hylians are teh godesses chosen people i highly doubt that the chose humans.--DeirdreKent101 (talk) 21:06, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
When Zelda sent link back in time she created to realities one where gannadorf was stoped and the flood never happend and one where teh gods flooded hyrule thus making the hylian blood line thin if you look into tp the hylian population is huge while the human population in onderian is small just beacuse the y have a human villige dosnt mean the hylians are declineing --DeirdreKent101 (talk) 21:11, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
I think she/he is right if you look on the main web and the descritpoin of the game it says its set in a parallel timeline Twilight Princess is as of yet the only game in The Legend of Zelda series to be rated T by the ESRB, for fantasy violence and animated blood, though there are a few bloody situations in older 3D Zelda games. The story focuses on Link trying to prevent Hyrule from being engulfed by a corrupted parallel dimension, the Twilight Realm. To do this, he takes the forms of both a human and a wolf. He is also assisted by a mysterious creature named Midna. It is supposedly set after the events of The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, following the timeline created after the events of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and is parallel to the events of The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. See--Corrine23 (talk) 00:34, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
I put something down here a while ago about a question of whether or not the Hylians are an ethnicity of humans or a separate race entirely. Why was it removed? There's instances in the games that seem to support that the Hylians are a sub-race of humans.
Well, MORTAL! List down the facts to support your answer! ~XionXIV★Talk!!! 15:44, October 24, 2010 (UTC)
WW Link's Ancestery
This article say that WW Link is said to be descended from the Knights of Hyrule, yet Daphnes seems to think that WW Link is not related to the Hero of Time. Was there perhaps some other reference to WW Link being descended from some other Hylian Knight, as opposed to the Hero of Time specifically?--Fierce Deku (talk) 04:29, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
Not as far as I remember. The only real connection WW Link seems to have with OoT Link is appearance, and personality. Ganon does say that WW Link is the reincarnation of OoT Link, but that may have simply been him reflecting on the uncanny similarities between the two. Evnyofdeath 17:02, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
Wow, I wrote that a long time ago. I think I was asking for a source on the part of the page that says WW Link is related to the Knights of Hyrule. Since he is indeed not supposed to be related to OoT Link it can't be talking about him, and I don't remember the game referencing a relation to the Knights. Does anyone know where that came from?--FierceDeku 05:03, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
I don't even know where to begin. This article is pretty flawed. I tried editing it, but I can't think straight at the moment, and I can't remember how to add the template box thing to call for fixing the article. So, I'm flagging it this way.Naxios10 (talk) 22:37, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
Something I've been thinking about: it is listed here as Hylian, but in terms of Twilight Princess, I would think that pertains to Lake Hylia. I may or may not be wrong, but wouldn't the correct spelling and pronunciation be "Hyrilian"?
I've literally no idea what you're saying, so I can't really give you a good answer here. --AuronKaizer! 21:32, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
It's Hylian. It always was and always will be. Just because Twilight Princess has less Hylians and more Humans does not mean people do not call them Hylian. Talk to Shad once in a while. He does say Hylian. -Starstalk 21:59, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
Twilight Princess DOES NOT HAVE MORE HUMANS THAN HYLIANS IF YOU GO TO CASTLE TOWN ALL THE NPC HAVE POINTED EARS THAT MAKES THEM HYLIAN.DeirdreKent101 (talk) 17:32, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
Source of Name
In the Skyward Sword Prologue. It mentions a Goddess that protects the Triforce. This Goddess isn't one of the three Deities but a protector appointed by the Deities. The latest info from Japan says that the Goddess is named Hylia. In the prologue, Hylia brings gathers the humans and sends them to the sky for protection. Therefore they are the humans of Hylia, or then the Hylians. This also clears up any question on Humans and Hylians being separate races and that Hylians are not classified by their ears but are instead decedents of the Humans that were saved by the Goddess Hylia. --Birdman5589 (talk) 17:28, October 14, 2011 (UTC)
So before I write about this theory, yes I'm aware that the land of Hyrule and it's inhabitants are technically based on medieval stuff, but there a few things I'd like to note. For starters, the Hylian language seems to have originated from Hiragana which itself can be translated into Hiragana (or English in later versions) which made me think "Are the Hylians in Hyrule actually Japanese in nationality" as a theory. Some of the puns and jokes in the Zelda game (the original Japanese versions) are ones that would only be usable in Japanese (in a cultural way) which I feel also adds weight on this theory. Before anyone notes that this Hyrule, I would like remind them that other similar video game characters (including Nintendo characters) also live in a place which seems to not have any nationality, yet the characters themselves are classified in one way or another as so. Still have more things to note about, but would like see what other people think about it.--Zakitaro (talk) 09:39, August 9, 2015 (UTC)
I really don't know what to say about this, it seems like a bizarre topic. Like obviously, Japanese culture would influence a Japanese game. Obviously, Japanese writing would influence the writing in fictional Japanese game. Obviously, translations won't be perfect and things will be lost (puns and jokes). But to solely place the Hylians as Japanese seems bizarre. Ignoring their western medieval influences, we can talk about the western fantasy influences. That of the defining trait, the pointed ears. Following a similar train of thought in hyperbole, we would be able to say that Hylians are German? The Hylians (with Link being the basis of design essentially) would be clearly inspired by the Germanic folklore of elves. Link, in particular, is most likely based upon either Robin Hood (of English folklore) or Peter Pan (from a Scottish book). The point of all this is that Hylian culture is not just Japanese, it's an amalgamation of many different cultures, eastern and western included. - McGillivray227 01:23, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
Plus, you know, visibly speaking they don't look ethically Asian at all. OniDark Link 19:56, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
I did note that last part. Not trying to offend you, just noting it out. I'm sure we could also note the German part as well since it's a theory. I will note that the Zelda games still seems to have a lot more Japanese culture in it even among it's Nintendo brethren. An example would be Link's Awakening DX where there are two photo's which have Japanese Kanji in them. The first one is the picture Link gets if he stole from the Town Tool Shop. Another one, (if you look closely) is the picture of the fisherman drowning. The boat has Japanese Kanji (that reads Large Catch) on it. Some of characters also speak in Kansai (In the Original Japanese versions) which further hints my theory. Also to note is that Like Likes (in the original Japanese version) apparently got their name from a Japanese proverb (Although it may more may not be canon since it's from a trophy in Smash Brothers). Point being though, since it's a theory (for now) I'd say there's something to writing about it. Other Nintendo characters have nationality so why not Hylians?--Zakitaro (talk) 10:07, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
Because Hylian is their nationality... it's just a game. —CeilingMaster 13:47, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
What main stream Nintendo characters other than Mario and Luigi have a real world nationality? I can think of two solitary gym leaders in Pokemon (which by the way, I reckon takes the cake in terms of Japanese influence in Nintendo games) and the characters in the first Mother game (which easily might have been retconed by the second) and that's it. The other major franchises to feature humans, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, F Zero, Golden Sun, Xenoblade all feature fictional nations and background for its characters. Even Metroid where (I think) Earth exists gives a fictional nation to its protagonist. OniDark Link 22:12, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
Did not see the message above about how the Hylians "supposedly not looking Asian so gonna leave this message first. While their hair color and eye color aren't really common in Asia, their facial structure does resemble Japanese people (especially in the newer 3d games) so there is that. Now the first game you noted "Pokemon" takes place in Japan as well. Note the region is "Kanto" along with other in game references (such as Pokedex entries) which suggest so. I'm not just referring to humans in general. Technically DK (presumably the same as other Mario characters), Tom Nook (as if the place and the character weren't obvious enough), Sonic (if you count Smash Brothers) and other minor characters do have confirmed nationality. Also other human characters like Samus (in terms of heritage), Little Mac and Snake (again if you count Smash Brothers) are American. Other Nintendo characters are shown as aliens not native to Earth so there is also that as well. To note other Nintendo characters like Ryota Hayami, Splatoon (well the place seems to be in future Shibuya), Dr Ryuta (in a sense), Detective Club, LBX and other (more minor but still Nintendo) game characters are Japanese. Please forgive me if this list seems long, but I tried to make it short but prominent. So anyways, is there another argument to me writing down this theory?--Zakitaro (talk) 01:09, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
No. Not only are a lot of those points unconfirmed, many aren't even Nintendo made characters. The important thing however is that those games take place universes where those nations exist. The Zelda games take place in a fictional world, created by fictional goddesses, with fictional lands, none of which are referred to as Japan. They have racial traits and cultures completely uninfluenced by Japan and most of the stuff that is comes from the language which is somewhat inevitable given it's a game made by Japanese people. If I was to make a game and didn't want to invent an entirely new language then I would most likely make it an altered variation of English and when wanting to give people an accent I'd pick somewhere in my own country to stereotype. Of course it's all irrelevant since the bottom line is that without Japan or Asia, no Japanese or Asian people can exist. OniDark Link 09:59, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
Not sure why you answered no to my previous question, yet placed an argument about it. If you had bothered to look it up, I'm sure you would have found out their nationality like I did. Although you claim that that Hylian's racial traits and cultures is completely uninfluenced by Japan, I've already written my arguments against that along with the fact that you yourself noted that it was made by Japanese people. There is Japanese influence in Hylian stuff (aside from facial structures, they have cultural stuff such as how Fi is the spirit of the Master Sword which is quite likely taken from a Japanese idea). This is also followed with the part that despite making a new language, they still used Kanji along with proverbs, which adds weight to my argument. Along with the fact they they know it's going to be dubbed yet went as far as to use the word "oni" in a important part of the story. You say it's irrelevant because they haven't mentioned Japan or Asia, yet you seemingly forgot the part where I noted that this is a "theory" which I tried to note as the Hylians being the equivalent to the Japanese in the land of Hyrule. Just because they haven't mentioned Japan doesn't make this theory invalid. If they did mention Japan, then would ether become confirmed or false information.--Zakitaro (talk) 12:37, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
I worded it badly but I wasn't intending to say they are completely uninfluenced by Asian culture. I'm saying they have traits that are uninfluenced by Japanese culture and that these said traits are completely uninfluenced, not that all traits are uninfluenced. What is your theory actually proposing? That the world that Hyurle takes place on has many countries mirroring our own and that Hyrule is an island on the eastern edge of the largest continent? Because the language used would not suggest that no matter how specific it is. Hylians are not Japanese. They have some Japanese influences but they also have some German influences, Irish influences, American influences and even African influences. Japan does not exit in the world of the Zelda series and the people therefore are not Japanese. Their nationality is Hylian, they come from the land of Hyrule which was created by a set of goddess. Their most noteworthy physical feature is long ears and their range of hair colours shows a lot more blond and auburn then would be typical of Asian races. Their skin is also most notably Caucasian. Even the bone structure is not uniform with many having skulls that would be seen as highly irregular in our world. The only character in the entire series that I can think of that looks like he's meant to appear to be of Asian descent is Zubora. Everyone else is either distinctly European or a mixture of other races. Even the more racially distinct Gerudo take from both Afrian and Middle Eastern Countries (and possibly even modern Middle Eastern countries judging by their piracy in Majora's Mask). Which also brings up a good point since the Gerudo are clearly not Japanese yet even Koume and Kotate have a Japanese pun in their name and take some inspiration from European folklore. The land of Hyrule and the people who inhabit draw inspiration from as many places as possible and trying to single out one aspect of it (especially the one that is most unavoidable being the culture of the people who create it) is both illogical and serves absolutely no purpose as a theory. OniDark Link 13:31, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
Kinda surprised by the long reply you gave. To first reply, I've already written in the first message that the Hylians were also inspired by other culture so there is no need to keep informing me of that. To note things on the other side, their skin color is actually more akin to the Japanese (the more pale kind they find attractive) while their eye shape is also somewhat akin to Asians. Let's not get further into this race thing though, since we could end up hurting someone's feelings or making things feel awkward. They are also Hylians, not humans which pretty much makes the whole physical similarity stuff kind of a moot point once I think about it. To somewhat separate this uneasy talk, I've already noted a number of times that they literally used Kanji and proverbs. Also to note is that when you mentioned Koume and Koutake, their headbands have their names in Katakana which is also part of the Japanese language. I'm not sure why you just outright stated they aren't the equivalent to the Japanese when the only people who would have credit saying so are ones directly connected to the game makers. This theory I'm trying to make isn't just to note the similarities, but also to note the in game Japanese stuff. It's the Hylian people, not Hyrule which I'm trying to note the parallels in. They do have evidence which suggests they are (in the land of Hyrule) the equivalent to the Japanese. --Zakitaro (talk) 14:31, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
All right, all right, wait. What's this theory you want to add? And please, put it in layman's terms for my sake. —CeilingMaster 17:01, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
Well I was trying to note that the Hylians could be the equivalent to the Japanese (In Hyrule) because of their mannerisms, culture, in game stuff and other (may or may not be canon) stuff. This way we could both note their similarities, as well as the Japanese stuff in some of their series. Kinda thought we should mention they are also Hylians, so the whole physical trait thing doesn't really matter, just in case. If we can't though, the things I mentioned right above should at least give some credibility for it. I doubt much people will be against the whole, trying to mention they are Hylians thing though.--Zakitaro (talk) 23:52, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
Except there is no credibility to this theory at all. Cultures and mannerisms are an amalgamation of cultures, a point that has been brought up time and again. Physically, the current art style of the series has influences in Japanese anime (which itself has influences in western cartoons, such as Betty Boop). Historically, even, there is nothing to tie them to the Japanese specifically (Japan's emperor in power versus Hylian's monarchy as a solid point against it in the history coloumn). And to note that a fictional race is an amalgamation of real life nations is a non-topic. Until there is anything said from the game creators to make this theory worthwhile and an active impression of the game creators pushing said agenda, then there is absolutely nothing to this theory at all. Gags and language lost in translation is plentiful in any translated work (look at anything from Nintendo's Earthbound to any number of Japanese films and television). Personally, I think this conversation has run its course far long ago and is currently just repeating points back and forth until one side just gives up. - McGillivray227 00:47, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
What do you mean credibility? First of all, I'm pretty sure we've noted that the physical thing is to be put on hold. Also to note is that the time they made the series, the law has changed, and the Japanese Emperor doesn't hold any power. They are now more of a symbol, if you will. The Japanese idea that their are multiple divine entities (albeit other religions also have that, but it is more close towards the Japanese), reincarnation being a thing (which pretty much makes it Asian, doesn't it), as well as spirits inside everything (like the Master Sword) is a thing as well (at least somewhat). This is also with the fact that they knew it was going to be dubbed. That at least hints they were somewhat trying to draw a parallel to Hylians and Japanese. Why else would they use a Japanese thing in a major plot point, if they knew it was going to be dubbed? I've also keep noting that they quite literally used Japanese in game. That itself is credible, isn't it? If you think this conversation "has run it's course", then why aren't you noting the stuff I pointed out since yesterday? I'm starting to get tired of noting that they clearly used Japanese language.--Zakitaro (talk) 01:13, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
Not to get into the culture of Japan too far, but they have little care for dubbing (subbing [as in subtitling] in this case, actually) and the ease of translating overseas or anything coming over to them for that matter, Nintendo included (see Mother series difficulty). HISTORICALLY, Japan had (as in not currently) an emperor and not a familial monarchy (see Hyrule's Royal Family). Going off the historical importance would have been your best point that it was the intention. Reincarnation existed in most other major religions. Skyward Sword's, for instance, reincarnation of Hylia can be said to be similar to that of the reincarnation found in Christianity (an actual religion that was used in the games before the introduction of the Goddesses). The "hints" are, once again, the product of creating a fictional world. Real world beliefs and cultures bleed into it. I addressed the quite literal Japanese language. It's a product of creating a gag that cannot be translated literally, otherwise known as "lost in translation". These things you see as hints are not hints, hence no credibility ("noun" the quality of being trusted and believed in). Proverbs are infamous that, if one were to translate literally, would lose all intended meaning.
The only thing I have not noted now, in detail I might add, is your list of characters with confirmed nationalities, which is mostly wrong. So let's dive into that: the only characters are correct are Little Mac (in-game "Bronx, New York" in his fighter's description) and Snake (an American, but don't think they stated from exactly where). Every other character is making assumptions on their origins; nothing confirmed about their nationalities. "you noted "Pokemon" takes place in Japan as well", does not in the World of Pokemon as the games have stated in pretty much all iterations opening. DK, Tom Nook, and Sonic all hail from unidentified locations on an Earth-like planet in the least (DK Island, "insert name of town here", and Sonic's has never been stated in-game). Samus is of an off-Earth colony as far as I know. Heritage can be just about anything, depends on how that future unfolds (i.e. cannot be American because America as we know it may not exist). I don't anything about the others, so that's about it.
So unless you have anything new to add, as in not repeating culture (amalgamation of cultures), mannerisms (amalgamation of mannerisms), history (amalgamation of history), and language (lost in translation). Anything else is most likely bleeding and is not intended. If there is anything to note other than these four things, then do so. Bringing these up again will net you same responses based upon the conversation, not just with myself but others as well. - McGillivray227 01:49, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
I just noted Grandpa DK (since he was Jumpman's pet) as living in the same place as Jumpman did, but since he was a pet, the laws would technically make him a citizen to the place Jumpman lived in. Might be an assumption though, so I'll leave that one. Tom Nook is a Tanuki, so that's pretty hinting as well. That and all the other in game stuff. The Kanto region is in Japan though, from both it's name as well as the in game stuff. The part about sonic may have been a mistake though, since it turns out he's from Christmas Island (an Australian place, although it might not be the same). Could have also been wrong about Samus (May have had the wrong information) as well. Aside from those two (three if you count Grandpa DK), all the other characters I mentioned are confirmed, so I don't see how it's "mostly wrong". I already keep mentioning the Japanese words (literal Kanji, Katakana and Hiragana) that are in the games. You may be right about the culture and history thing though, but why do you keep denying the Majora and Fierce Deity part? It's not only a major part of the story, but is completely a Japanese thing.--Zakitaro (talk) 03:08, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
I'm exiting this conversation after this comment. Anyone else can feel free to talk. As far as characters go, pet =/= same place and Jumpman (Mario) is not of our world either. Tom Nook is a world of anthropomorphized animals in which the player can decide where it takes place. Also described as a racoon in English releases. Kanto region of Pokemon =/= Kanto region of Japan. WORLD OF POKEMON as stated in the game. It would've directly talked to the player if had so intended to link our world to theirs. (I'm struggling in a way in which you introduce a mouse charged with electricity in our world, but whatever.) Also, the aforementioned Kalos is in the world of Pokemon, but not our own (Kalos and Kanto must co-exist in Pokemon), so what does that mean? Not our version of Kanto. Every other character is either directly stated as Japanese (Ryota, Dr. Ryuta [an actual person, mind you]), it doesn't say one way or the other (Detective Club [a Japanese-only game for a good part its lifetime isn't a good example], LBX) or it isn't at all, but has inspirations (Splatoon [never played, but is called Inkopolis so cannot be Shibuya]). I'd also like to note that Fierce Deity, by virtue of being optional, is not a major part of the story, but again, reincarnation exists in other religions. Even specifically, Buddhism is an East Asian belief that is not solely belong to Japan and, as such, cannot count as Japanese. North American copies do not have "oni" in them at all. So clearly, translation found a way around it. So of a list of about eleven characters, a minority of four total are confirmed in nationalities of our Earth. And lost in translation, once again, and not specifically a Japanese-only belief and, as such, cannot be attributed to them. And personally, I don't think your reading my responses at all or simply ignoring major problems with either the way you are wording yourself or the way you are viewing things quite literally. - McGillivray227 03:43, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
Are you kidding? It's already been confirmed that Mario has a nationality. Tom Nook's stuff is filled with Japanese in game stuff. I'm pretty sure the makers of the game intended the place to be in Japan. How many times do I have to mention the in game stuff for Pokemon because I'm getting kind of sick of it. The place for LBX is Japan though, since it's been outright stated. As for Splatoon, it takes place in a future where humans became extinct and Marine life evolved which is why they renamed the place Inkopolis. The part about the Fierce Deity being optional is kind of a quibble though. It's only in game, whereas the creators confirmed it to be completely canon to the story. You also did admit that the stuff about reincarnation and other similar ideas are from Asia. What do you mean "translation", when they clearly changed the whole thing? You accuse me of ignoring these "your responses" but I don't see you being any better when you seemingly haven't even read my responses clear enough. Feel free to act indifferent though, if that's how you really feel. I also don't see why it's such a big deal when I (for about like the third time) am trying to write a "theory" which doesn't have anything that argues with it, has legit evidence to back it up, isn't offensive or inappropriate and actually makes sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zakitaro (talk • contribs)
We don't add theories unless they are a) extremely popular or b) have a lot of evidence backing them up. You are making the mistake of assuming that a lack of evidence against something is in fact evidence for it, which isn't true: just because there's a lack of evidence against something doesn't mean you can take some tangential facts and pull them together into a "theory" that doesn't even make sense to begin with. What I think you're failing to see is that it's not really relevant at all — so the Hylians are the "equivalent to Japanese in Hyrule"; that's meaningless when we don't have races that represent other real-life nationalities. Even if there is evidence for this, which I maintain there isn't, I simply feel that this is not worth mentioning on the page as is. More to the point, it's clear to me that the other users here disagree with you that it should be added, and you're refusing to give in. I recall someone specifically mentioning to you that it doesn't go super well for users who come to ZP specifically to write theories; the theory sections are those that have the highest tendency to become irrelevant or go out of hand, and focusing too much on them as opposed to factual stuff just isn't what an encyclopedia is about.
Once again I'd like to note that the hard line for theories is that they should have a lot of factual in-game evidence backing them up (which again, I maintain you don't have; if you do, please list them neatly in bullets in response so I don't have to wade through this massive argument) or they should be popular — which by definition means if you just invent a theory on the spot, it shouldn't be on the page. This argument is getting out of hand; you're clearly opposed and are refusing to give up. If you want to respond to me with a coherent argument for this theory, like a mockup of what you'd like to put on the page, fine — do so, and then we'll have a vote right here where active users can either support or oppose putting it on the page. That seems perfectly fair to me. Sorry that this is coming off as abrasive, but I'm frustrated by the fact that this argument is continuing on and on and on in cycles. This can't keep going. ~Minish (talk) 04:55, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
you say that about theories, but I don't quite think half the theories here fit the description. No offense to you or this wiki. Not sure voting is fair though, since there does not seem to be much people taking my side in this. I would like to note that things like "Santa" have been mentioned in the series, so I think it's at least fair to compare their stuff with ours. Well since you asked for it, here's the list. Didn't really know how to make a bullet list for this talk page, so please forgive me if this looks weird.
Japanese Kanji, Katakana and Hiragana being used.
Oni thing in the original Japanese story which is canon to the story.
Some other characters speaking in Kansai. The way Texas people speak is more like slang way if you ask me. Could be wrong though.
Anyways though, their language does seem to be Japanese in nature so I think that's at least notable. If you have anything against that as well, then I'm probably not going to discuss about it anymore. I don't want to risk being kicked out of here or blocked since this is a much fairer wiki with admins like you, unlike a certain unfair wiki I previously edited in.--Zakitaro (talk) 05:34, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
It's not that there's sides here, per se, it's just theories are an iffy topic here, since we've always prided ourselves on being encyclopedic. But I do have to thank you for actually getting a lengthy discussion going — it's been a while since I've seen this much activity on Zeldapedia. —CeilingMaster 14:15, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
I agree with CM. That being said, you specifically say here "Not sure voting is fair though, since there does not seem to be much people taking my side in this"; that's not really how voting works -- people vote on whether they want something or not, and if most people are opposing you, then they can do that in a vote. That being said, if any of the other admins want to chime in about whether a vote is a good idea or not, that's fine by me. ~Minish (talk) 15:07, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
I'm not opposed to a vote (are we going to vote on a vote?) but I doubt it would get through. I'd probably be neutral. —CeilingMaster 15:20, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
Well in that case, I'm not sure what to do about this theory. The part about the vote thing being "unfair" was just a joke (should have made that more obvious).--Zakitaro (talk) 01:06, August 13, 2015 (UTC)