Talk: Human

Okay, in the recent games what was classically referred to humans and the race Hylians were universally described as "Human". So it's clear this shouldn't be considered a fanon name anymore. It's clearly official. However this includes all Human races, not just the ones with round ears. So we will have to sort this out on this page. Matt ^(Talk) 21:36, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Why aren't humans in the list of races of the Zelda Universe? Kdman64 23:28, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Is there any real lore to support a distinction between humans and what this wiki considers hylians? Or was this just a creative distinction made by some user(s) of this wiki? Seems like creative speculation misleadingly presented as factual canon. In Twilight Princess, members of Hyrule's predominant race, pointed and round eared, are all referred to as "humans", even Link. While the term "Hylian" comes up as well, it appears the two terms are used interchangeably. --Goomboy 02:19, 15 December 2011 (EST)

"Human" has also been used to refer to Sheikah and Gerudo. I believe there are other trives that it includes, but I can't remember them at the moment. However, the Wind Tribe is talked about as distinct from humans.

In any case, this article is not only fanon, but it contradicts canon. That's pretty unacceptable; we shouldn't be documenting and giving playtime to fanon ideas that are explicitly wrong. Does the Zelda encyclopedia give a name to the non-pointy tribe? For all we know, they are simply something like "Low Hylians".KrytenKoro 09:57, 15 December 2011 (EST)

Or that the non-pointy ears are simply Hylians that have a different-shaped ears, just in the same way people of the same ethnicity or tribe can and do still have different features. The round-eared people, unlike other tribes that you mentioned like Gerudo and Sheikah, don't seem to have any very specific differences from Hylians (eg. Gerudo are mostly female and are darker skinned, Sheikah are a special guardian race with a connection to the Goddesses.) Howeverm that is only my speculation, we don't have conclusive proof one way or the other that the round-eared are Hylians or not, and I agree that fanon, especially if it contradicts the lore, isn't really kosher for wiki content. If it doesn't contradict, and is at least under a speculation tab, that is different.

What you said about humans makes sense. Ultimately, I think "Human" page should really just list and point to the various tribe articles of canon tribes that we actually know, Hylian, Gerudo and so fourth, perhaps in a trivia section of the human page, it can be listed that there are some round-eared humans in the games, and it is unknown what tribe they belong to or if they are their own tribe, as opposed to trying to categorize or name them, without the proper lore to back it up.--Goomboy 11:25, 15 December 2011 (EST)

It seems at least a few pages on this wiki follow the contradicted "humans are the round-eared ones" dogma, if I want to go about changing this by editing the various pages, do I need to run it by anyone on some main discussion page? If not, but I still need to provide my argument, do I need to post the same thing in the discussion page of every article I edit?--Goomboy 12:52, 15 December 2011 (EST)

Just because they're unclassified doesn't mean they should be discarded. They're still humans. I agree with everything else, though. And yeah, all you have to do is bring it up at Hyrule Castle... which you've already done. — Hylian King ^[*] 18:25, 17 December 2011 (EST)

Updated the article so that it now covers the term "human" as it is presented in canon as opposed to fanon. Round-eared humans haven't been forgotten and get full description on this page, just appropriately haven't been classified as they have received no official designation in canon. I know this is a rather drastic change, and I am sure there will be subsequent edits and discussion, but I hope this is a step in the right direction for this wiki page.--Goomboy 03:53, 22 December 2011 (EST)

I think it's more than just that. You did a fantastic job. Really, one could not have asked for much better. :)

The only gripe I had with it is the lack of references. As you may have noticed, we're pretty anal about that here. I went ahead and added some. Also, where is it mentioned that the Wind Tribe is specifically not human? — Hylian King ^[*] 20:35, 22 December 2011 (EST)

Apologies about the citations, I will be sure to be more careful about that in the future, and thank you for adding some. I'm glad you approve of the changes though. :) I hope my changes aren't too controversial, but I do think that this is a more logical treatment of the subject of "humans", based on what we do and don't know about them.

As for the Wind Tribe, I do remember dialog of a Wind Tribe member implying humans as being a separate and distinct party from themselves, but perhaps I shouldn't have been so quick to write that section just from memory. I'll try my best to find it, but in the meantime if you think it doesn't belong there, we can change it, and then change it back later when I find said dialog. Cheers.--Goomboy 22:05, 22 December 2011 (EST)

TMC

• A Minish living in Minish Village. He speaks some human languages. He sees that Link is human with one look. He's a bit of a human enthusiast.
• (other quotes implying Minish are not humans)
• "In this tower dwell the people of the Wind Tribe. We left your surface world long ago to serve a greater duty. We now protect the gate to the Palace of Winds, where the Wind Element lies."

ST

• "My goodness, pretending to be human is exhausting. Who knew that chancellor was just another word...for royal babysitter?!" (demons are not humans)
• "Impossible...I've trained for longer than you can even imagine. How could a pair of human children defeat me?" (Lokomo? are not human -- is this Byrne?)
• "Yes, we are humans. We have neither the power of spirits nor demons. But when we combine our strength...No one can defeat us!" (Spirits are not human)
• "Humans always think that unless they say something, others won't hear them. Truth is, people talk just as loudly with their hearts...But because people have mouths, they don't pay attention to their hearts." (Cobble are not human)
• "So you are the human Kagoron spoke of. I am the elder of this village! Thank you for your help. Now you are like a Goron to us all. I have heard why you want to see me." (Gorons are not humans)

TP

• "Eee hee! That's much better! You humans are obedient to a fault, aren't you?" (Twili are not human)
• "And what's with putting that temple so deep that humans can't swim there?! I swear, those Zoras..." (Zoras are not human)
• "Human legs...too slow to catch monkeys..." (Monkeys are not human)
• "Neither humans nor Gorons should make judgments based on appearance, I suppose..." (Gorons are not human)
• "Wolves can see things with their senses that humans can't, right?" (Animals are not human)
• "You cute little human. Husband told me you come. You want to look at mirror, uh?" (Yetis are not human)

FSA

• "Ganon... This beast was once of the Gerudo... Once human. He was called Ganondorf!" (Gerudo are human)

TWW

• "Once upon a time, long ago, the Koroks took on human forms, but when they came to live on the sea, they took these shapes." (Koroks are not human)

ALttP

• "Cluck cluck... What?! You turned me into a human." (...Cuccos are not human)

OoS

• "Goron or human, health is all that matters!" (Gorons are not human)

MM

• "Did you memorize the code? If only you were human...then I could make you a Bombers member...Too bad!" (Deku are not human)
• "I guess not...Once, we let some kid who wasn't human join our gang, and, boy, did we ever regret it! Sorry! But I'll teach you the code, just like I promised. I can tell you only once, though, so pay close attention! Are you ready?" (Skull Kid? is not a human)
• "Atop the hill here in Ikana, no human presence is felt, except that of the parent and child living in the house with the waterwheel." (Ikana are not human)

Hmm...the Wind Tribe talks about leaving the surface world, and whenever humans are talked about, it's in context of the surface stuff...but it's not explicit, so I guess I was wrong about them being said to be distinct. Oh well. There's nothing definitive either way.

There is nothing to indicate anything about the Ho Ho or Zuna, either.

I think we can definitely assume that anything that isn't homonid isn't a human, but...if it's not on this list, then we don't have any explicit evidence either way.KrytenKoro 23:27, 22 December 2011 (EST)

Thanks Kyrten, looks like Wind Tribe is upgraded to "unconfirmed" and Gerudo to "confirmed." I should do a little more research next time. Also, for the quote about Lokomo and human children, yes that was said by Byrne, and it seem like they should almost be out, into Confirmed Non-Human, however to me its a very strong argument against the case that they aren't humans, but they aren't out, though its unlikely, so definitely up for discussion.--Goomboy 23:24, 23 December 2011 (EST)

Seperate note; where are the round-eared humans indicated to not have magic powers? Hylians are noted to have them in Link to the Past's instruction manual, but I don't of where in canon that round-eared humans have been described as not having magic. If its just a case of never seeing characters of this type using magic in the canon, perhaps just this fact can be mentioned, and that this suggests they do not have magic powers?--Goomboy 23:24, 23 December 2011 (EST)

Should Hylian and Gerudo be removed from this page...?

From what I understand, Hylians and Gerudos are both sub-races of Hunan and neither should be counted as a Human. They both are mostly LIKE us, but still sub-races, so shouldn't they just stick to their OWN articles? — ᏒᎬᎠᎬᎪᎠ64 01:36, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

They are both referred to as "humans," so as far as the series is concerned they are human, so they belong on this page. However, we have no evidence insofar as scientific classification, so we cannot reasonably deem any as "sub-races." So basically, they're all equally human on differing branches of an unknown "species" list. - Tony^{T S C} 03:41, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Don't tend to use Magic?

When is there any indication in the series that Round Eared humans not using magic as much as hylians? We see plenty of round eared humans that use magic, proportionally around the same amount as magic using hylians. Delsait (talk) 09:14, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

I approve of the articles current form. Delsait (talk) 08:38, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

To return to this earlier topic, were you basing this idea over the fact that Lady Maud and Madame Couture could use magic? Couture says she is from an unspecified tribe who specialize in imbuing magic into clothes. This would imply that Maud and Couture are part of a race that is distinct from ordinary humans. So there is really nothing indicating that humans are naturally capable of using magic. - Midoro ^{(T C)} 18:20, 11 December 2016 (UTC)