It's CRAZY THEORY TIME! This probably won't end up being the case, but what if he's a dark interloper? We know their rebellion came before Ocarina of Time. Maybe this is that story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.247.139.166 (talk • contribs)

Couple 'o things. Always remember to sign in. You should switch to monobook (we have a cool theme -toots own horn-). And yeah, it's possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jäzzi (talk • contribs) 03:20, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

MaloMart – You can't go walking around carrying a bunch of the same shields... Use your brain. TALK – Got a need for speed? My Zelda Game My Other Zelda Game The Legend of Zelda Movies The Legend of the Postman Operation: QuoteUnquote Questions Sorry, that was me. I forgot to sign in. So, anyone want to comment on that theory?

I did. I'm not some crazy theorist, so don't expect a giant comment on the theory from me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jäzzi (talk • contribs)

Oni Dark Link – "Fantasy is silver and scarlet, indigo and azure, obsidian veined with gold and lapis lazuli. Reality is plywood and plastic, done up in mud brown and olive drab. Fantasy tastes of habaneros and honey, cinnamon and cloves, rare red meat and wines as sweet as summer. Reality is beans and tofu, and ashes at the end - George R.R Martin" TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough I don't know I always thought the Interloper event happened at the same time as the war mentioned in Ocarina of Time. The use of crazy Ilia in that scene seems to imply that everyone was against each other. Then again we have next to no info of the war before Ocarina Of Time aside from a few references so it could be two separate events. It is interesting to note that Ghirahim has a curved ear and a pointed ear implying some kind of half bread and it is believed by some that the interlopers were a combination of races what with the Twili having loads of different symbols of other races. Ah theorizing I haven't done much of that in a while. Anyway another question I want to ask is should we just go ahead and make a page for this guy's boss battle? We already seen that he will have one (hopefully that won't be the only one) and we will have to make it eventually. Why not sooner rather then later?

Jedimasterlink – The Force will be with you, always. TALK – REVIEWS — EDIT COUNT — CONTRIBUTIONS — TOC Considering the fact that SS is supposed to be before OoT, it's entirely possible that Ghirahim is an interloper. The thing that first made me think of this was that whenever he teleports, the particles surrounding him look like twilight particles. But that's just me making crazy, half-brained connections. Nintendo would never make such clear references to another Zelda game, now would they? </sarcasm>

Maybe, he's a Sheikah. That probaly wrong because of the purple eyes, but maybe it was just Impa and Shiek that had red eyes? However I do like MaloMart's mixed race theorey. By the way, this is Lordandmaster, I just haven't created a template yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordandmaster (talk • contribs)

Sheikahs are all female given by the game evidence. --BassJapas (Jazzi) 18:10, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

What proof do you have that none are male? Only proof of female? What if all the males died out? Idiot's page Future ruler of the world's talk 19:08, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

In game evidence shows that they're all female. Depends on how you look at Sheik though, which furthers to thoughts on whether or not Sheik is male or female. But going by in game evidence, they might be like Gerudo's and only have a male every so often. Or perhaps Sheik is female. --BassJapas (Jazzi) 19:14, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

The game never explicitly says all Sheikah are female, and 2 isn't exactly a good sample size (and Sheik might be male). On topic, Ghirahim doesn't look like a Sheikah at all to me. Jedimasterlink (talk) 19:18, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

If all Shiekah are female, why would Zelda pose as and/or transform into a male one? That would make no sense. -Isdrakthül 19:26, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

That's why I said there might be the similarities with the Gerudo. And I still can't really determine if Impaz is female or not... --BassJapas (Jazzi) 21:28, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Contents 1 Hm... 2 Gender 3 Dark Link 4 Typos of note while article is locked 5 Gem connection

Hm... Edit

Am I the only one getting a slight Vaati vibe from this guy? If you weren't there for me, I wouldn't be here 09:54, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Indeed you aren't. Prior to his true identity being revealed, the internets were overflowing with woefully undersupported theories about him being Vaati. I do see some resemblance and so do a lot of people, but ever since his first trailer appearance there have been many more differences than similarities imo. Personally I don't think it's worth of mentioning in-article, I feel like the Vaati thing was mainly there because of fan desire to see something they recognized. There could certainly be other opinions on that though.--FierceDeku 20:31, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

I think that Vaati is Girahim's master or perhaps father. Akirra Blood (talk)

Hopefully, yes you are. Don't destroy his chance of making it as a potentially good character by linking him to a terrible one. That's monstrous. --AuronKaizer! 21:09, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

If Ganondorf has information about their personality and he powers and abilities why not Vaati and Ghirahim and others so how stupid EveryDayJoe45 and others are to remove the powers, abilities and the personality of Ghirahim there no excuses for that!

Maybe it is because you made a "personality" section and then left it blank... --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 13:10, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I leave it blank so that you and other contributory write their personalty in you own and for the fans and to prepare de personality information and why you remove the information of powers and abilities EveryDayJoe45?

Because you just switched out the battle section for it. After the game is released and we likely have have a boss article for Ghirahim, the battle information will go there. Until then, we need it on this page. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 13:29, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Did you know that the battle section tell about Ghirahim powers and in the same time tell how he fight so if you're smart enough to notice that EveryDayJoe45.

Might have had something to do with the fact you were trying to make them BEFORE THE GAME CAME OUT ANYWHERE, ergo any information would be unvarifiable. Evnyofdeath 23:46, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Gender Edit

Okay, due to edits, I'm bringing this here to prevent an edit war. If he's referred to as male in the game, then we should put his gender as male. I honestly have no clue since I don't own the game. I'll have this as empty till this is settled. – Jäzzi 03:05, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Race does not designate gender and as far as we know there are both male and genderless beings of this type. That all being said, the two being the same race is completely up to interpretation. There is no reason for Ghirahim to not be considered male. Xykeb Yvolix Zraliv 03:08, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

He is referred to as male many times in the game. Also, unlike Fi, Nintendo has not said he is genderless (to my knowledge at least). As a matter of fact, Nintendo didn't even say Fi is genderless that I remember. Aonuma just said "I wouldn't call her a female per se". So carrying that questionable comment over to a totally different character is a little ridiculous. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 03:12, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

My view is as follows. While they may both be Sword Spirits, Ghirahim is refered to as male whenever he is mentioned (Example: Lanayru calls him a "Creeeepy guy") and Nintendo hasn't said anything about his gender, unlike with Fi, who despite being refered to as Female, Nintendo has flat out said she is genderless. Evnyofdeath 03:13, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

I believe that since Nintendo hasn't stated he's genderless then we should keep him as male. Perhaps add a little <!-- For discussions of his gender please see the talk page. --> to the gender section. – Jäzzi 03:15, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think even that is necessary as there is as much evidence that Ghirahim is male as there is that Groose is. The only thing keeping us from outright saying that Fi is female is that she's not female "per se". Xykeb Yvolix Zraliv 03:19, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

If he calls himself LORD Ghirahim, then wouldn't he consider himself male and therefore be male? If Nintendo intendede for him to be genderless they probably would have picked a neutral title, such as Master. Scathee 03:16, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Fi is similarly referred to, both in-game and in interviews by Nintendo's staff, as "she". Heck, even Scrapper is referred to as "he", and he's clearly not going to have the reproductive organs necessary to quality as gendered. Personally, I don't care if Ghirahim and Fi are both referred to as gendered or if they're both referred to as "genderless with the appearance of a gender", but there is absolutely no reason to refer to one as a gender and the other as genderless. They're the exact same class of creature: sword spirits. It looks odd and rather sloppy to have two members of the exact same race given different physiological traits without having any canonical evidence to back up either claim.--OldSchoolZeldaFan (talk)

Causing an edit war over this is quite sloppy as well.

Until I happened to catch a link to this talk page, I wasn't even aware of any "war"; I simply saw the edits that took me hours to make being undone time after time. I've had to rewrite my edits three times, today, because someone decided to do a blanket Undo, rather than pick and choose what to keep. Again: I don't care whether both Fi and Ghirahim have genders of whether they don't; I'd just like to see some semblance of consistency, since this is a Wiki and we're all supposed to be working towards a common goal.--OldSchoolZeldaFan (talk)

Anyways, I don't have the game, so I don't know which one is referred to as which, and Ghirahim is, from what I've picked up, more humanish than Fi is. – Jäzzi 03:23, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

This isn't even a "race", strictly speaking, and as such we have no idea the specifics of the situation. Perhaps there are different classes of sword spirits or maybe Fi is a special kind because she was made by the goddess. Or maybe you're right. The simple fact is that we don't know, and so we must go on what we do know. And what we do know is that Ghirahim is portrayed and referred to as a male in every possible instance. Another thing to note is that Fi is not the Goddess Sword and is merely a spirit inhabiting it, while Ghirahim is implied to actually be Demise's sword. So they may be completely different beings after all, and the parallel between them was more symbolic than anything else. Xykeb Yvolix Zraliv 03:31, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Not sure if "race" is the proper term, but they're both the humanoid representation of a sword created by beings vastly more powerful than the Hylians. If we use the argument that Fi may be special because she was created by the Goddess, we must also remember that whatever Demise is, he was powerful enough that Hylia had to nearly deplete her power completely just to seal him, not even to kill him. And Fi and Ghirahim (in his final form) look to be made of the same material. Even their sword states look similar. With so much circumstantial evidence, why should we jump to the conclusion that they're somehow a different class of being? Ghirahim's been among living creatures far longer than Fi has, and yet, even with the limited amount of time she spends with Link, Fi changes toward the end of the game, and starts displaying more emotion. Perhaps if she's not been sealed up inside the Goddess Statue for eons, she, too, would be fully emotive, as Ghirahim is. I just don't see how the argument that they're "somehow" different can hold any water. --OldSchoolZeldaFan (talk)

Okay, assuming you are correct here: why does the notion that they're the same type of being matter? Fi is not considered genderless because she is a sword spirit. She is considered genderless because Nintendo specifically stated that she was not, technically speaking, a female. They have said no such thing about Ghirahim. Xykeb Yvolix Zraliv 03:50, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Nintendo made a point to mention Fi's gender because the topic came up, and so they addressed it. To my knowledge, nobody asked them point-blank about Ghirahim's gender. And even if they had, it would be very difficult for Nintendo to provide an answer without potentially giving away a plot-point. But if Fi isn't female "per se", and every canonical piece of evidence suggests that she and Ghirahim are the same type of creature, then how can we assume that Ghirahim isn't also "not male, per se"? And, given that they are both the bodily incarnations of an inanimate object (and why the heck would the AI or spirit of a weapon even need reproductive organs?), then is it really any sort of leap in logic that we use similar terms and identifiers for them? --OldSchoolZeldaFan (talk)

We base our information on facts or official statements, not assumptions. What you're saying all makes logical sense, but we cannot speak for Nintendo here. They simply said Fi was not technically female and did not say the equivalent about Ghirahim. They also did not specifically say it was because Fi is a sword spirit, and while that would make sense it is not our place to assume as such. Xykeb Yvolix Zraliv 04:09, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, look. Your point is that because Ghirahim is Demise's sword --or his sword spirit, whatever-- and Fi is another sword spirit, the two are the same race and should therefore both be considered genderless. We have no proof they are the same race at all in any way, from what I understand. Additionally: "And, given that they are both the bodily incarnations of an inanimate object" Fi is not the Goddess Sword. Let me clarify this now. Ghirahim, however, as Xykeb said, appears to be implied to be Demise's sword. They are different beings, or at least, let me put it this way: there is no reason for us to assume that they are the same race or type of being. That would, when it comes down to it, be considered a theory. This argument is getting too lengthly and is, frankly, pointless. Let me repeat and stress this again. There is no concrete evidence that would cause us to assume that Ghirahim and Fi are the same race. They have some similarities, but many, many differences, and when it comes down to his gender, he is blatantly referred to as male many times. Coming to your other point, "then how can we assume that Ghirahim isn't also "not male, per se"?" we can't do that because we're an encyclopedia. We go off of facts, not assumptions. So until you have concrete proof that Ghirahim is, indeed, genderless, this argument is closed. -Minish Link 04:14, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, didn't Aonuma state that Ghirahim was designed to have a unisex, genderless feel, and had said something similar in regards to Fi? Weedle McHairybug (talk) 04:37, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

I don't remember that at all, but even if you can find a quote, androgyny is not the same thing as genderlessness. -Minish Link 04:39, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

I remember that quote, and Minish beat me to it. Evnyofdeath 04:44, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Dark Link Edit

Theory: Dark Link wields a Dark Version of the Master Sword, so does Demise, Demise's Master Sword is Ghirahim. Perhaps after Demise's defeat Ghirahim managed to survive and manifest himself as an evil version of Link while using his own power to summon a sword similar to his prevous form. --DrNefarious (talk) 09:48, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

What you're suggesting is that Ghirahim turned from a Dark Master Sword into Dark Link and then created a new Dark Master Sword out of nowhere...right? Xykeb Yvolix Zraliv 11:06, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

I was more thinking he created it from himself, Dark Link's sword is a lesser version of Demise's sword, so Ghirahim possibly created it from himself.--DrNefarious (talk) 01:31, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

So the idea here is that Ghirahim reproduces asexually, I guess. So in this theory, why is Ghirahim turning from a sword into a Link clone, apparently losing his entire personality in the process, exactly? Xykeb Yvolix Zraliv 02:49, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

My theory doesn’t actually make much sense. Perhaps Dark Link’s sword is Ghirahim!!

-- --DrNefarious (talk) 06:06, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

I don't usually take part in this theory stuff, but Ghirahim does have a tendancy to teleport by exploding in a bunch of particles. Which is bassically what happend when Demise's Sword disapeared. I don't know if there is a connection between dark link and Ghirahim, but I don't think Ghirahim necessarily died in the final fight. after all, why would he? He only got electrocuted a couple of times. ZGWolf (talk) 02:14, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

Typos of note while article is locked Edit

Since the article is locked, I figured I'd point out some errors here and start a topic for such in the event it stays locked and non-admin users spot inaccuracies.

The only error I see right now is under Personality, "He also has a flare for the dramatic"; this should be "flair". —Preceding unsigned comment added by IceFlame1019 (talk • contribs)

Will fix. – Jäzzi 22:40, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Gem connection Edit

This idea is incredibly unlikely, but... what if Ghirahim survived Demise's death and took on a new form- namely the gem in Ganondorf's forehead? In this way, Demise's new incarnation could continue using Ghirahim's power, allowing him to summon swords and augment his magic. In Wind Waker, when Ganondorf was stabbed in the head, his gem shattered, killing Ghirahim permanently. 98.227.43.109 00:20, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Zeldas ganon – "And shepherds we shall be, for thee, my lord, to thee. Thy power hath descended forth from thy hand, so that my feet shall swiftly carry out thy command. And so we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. E nomini d'patri....-Boondock Saints TALK – 01:05, August 7, 2012 (UTC) Hm. I dunno, let's look at Ganondorf and look at Demise. Demise has a white spot where Ganon's gem should be, Demise's hair is red flames, like Ganondorf's is simply red hair. Maybe you're right, and when Ghirahim faded away, his power/essence was sealed with Ganondorf. When Demise was reborn, Ghirahim could'nt be drawed upon. Instead, Demise sealed Ghirahim's power into a gem, and imbued it into that white spot as a sort of protection. Perhaps also in TP, Ganondorf is using Ghirahim's power to make himself into that large gaseous cloud which we see Ganondorf in when he appraches Zant.

Xykeb Zraliv – 7. And the King took the vestments of the Prince and gave them to the Man of Purity, and the Man of Purity became the New Prince. TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts Talk pages are supposed to be about changes made to the articles in question, which is this is not. Make a forum if you want to discuss obscure possibilities that are 100% speculation.

Zeldas ganon – "And shepherds we shall be, for thee, my lord, to thee. Thy power hath descended forth from thy hand, so that my feet shall swiftly carry out thy command. And so we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. E nomini d'patri....-Boondock Saints TALK – 03:39, August 7, 2012 (UTC) Hm, odd, I seem to remember leaving you a message about a theory, and you told me that it was better to take it to the talk page of the article in question. Now you say Forum. Hm, A bit of hypocrisy there...:p....hm...I kinda say "Hm" Alot, don't I...

Xykeb Zraliv – 2. And Frehorn said, “I know you now, O Prince who was the Arrogant Man, and I anticipate your wish, and I will devote myself to spreading the teachings you have brought me and the love of our King.” TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts This is not a theory. This is speculation with no basis in the series. There is a huge difference. Theories deal with possible changes, therefore they go on talk pages. Conversations about stuff that will never go on the article in question because they don't actually have any basis in fact? Not so much. There is no hypocrisy here, and it would be nice if you kept your unfounded criticism to yourself. Also, don't continue this conversation here because this is going even more off-topic than the original topic that didn't belong here. If you really must keep talking, do it on my talk page or something. I'd rather you didn't, though, because nothing more really needs to be said.

If this is the wrong place for this kind of post, then sorry about that! But when I went on here, the first topic on the page was speculation that Ghirahim was a dark interloper, so I assumed this was the place for such topics. 98.227.43.109 14:19, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Xykeb Zraliv – 2. And the King was greatly wrathful, and He said to the Prince, “Why have you returned, O Prince? You, who would betray his King, who would defy his own Flesh?” TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts It's alright; this whole "talk pages are for article-improvement only" thing is something we didn't really enforce in the earlier days, so I can understand why you might be confused. As a general rule of thumb, if you're proposing we actually add the theory to the page because you think it's worthy of mention, it should go on the talk page. If you're just making conversation about something you think would be an interesting possibility, it should go somewhere else, like a forum or your userpage or something.