Talk: Food

BotW Food Effects

Just to note, the effect associated with a cooked food/brewed elixir can be dependent on the amount of ingredients used to make it. For example, this energizing mushroom skewer provides 5 hearts of recovery and restores 1/5 of the stamina wheel, whereas this energizing mushroom skewer provides 6 hearts of recovery and restores 4/5 of the stamina wheel.

Due to this, the "Effects" column, which is currently detailing the amount of hearts gained from consumption of food, is very misleading due to the effects themselves not being static. Perhaps for the time being the "Effects" column should be changed to only detail the generic effect a certain cooked food has i.e. "Restores Stamina", to avoid any confusion? - Dekusian (talk) 16:38, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

I added some additional columns under Omelets and Sautéed Nuts to show different recipes and their different effects. I think this is how they'll need to be listed if we want a complete list of recipes.

I think the best way to list recipes would be to find out what ingredients are required for a dish (ie. I suspect Eggs are required for Omelets) and then have another section showing things you can add, and their effects to any dish. A single Bird Egg Omelet recovers 2 Hearts, but a Bird Egg with an Apple makes an Omelet that recovers 3 Hearts. If we could determine that any dish plus an Apple increases that dish's effect by +1 Heart, we could state that fact in a separate section. However we'd need to verify that is the case for all recipes. Until then, I think dishes will need to be listed with multiple recipes. Other suggestions? - Eggwall (talk) 03:26, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

I think it's time to reopen this discussion now that we have done a lot of restructuring and are starting to hone in on what feels like a more finalized format for the page. Right now the "Effects" column for the cooking pot recipes is still a very hazy topic. Because effects can be so varied, if we are going to include them we need to have a standard. I personally believe that keeping effects in the long haul could be beneficial if we take it from a "Base Recipe" standpoint. What I propose is specifying the base heart recovery (and maybe base effect duration) that you will get out of any recipe. Effect duration might be too ambitious because I think even that varies significantly between the different types of ingredients, but for heart recovery at least, I think that would be doable.

The way I propose going about it is using the "lowest value" ingredients and the fewest ingredients required to make each recipe. This would mean using the lowest "tier" ingredient from each class category. For example, as far as fruit goes, the "apple" is the most generic and (as far as I know) lowest effect fruit you can use. Similarly for mushrooms your low end would be the Hylian Shroom, and for fish it would be the Hylian Bass, for meat it would be either the raw meat or raw bird drumstick. Veggies/Herbs would be a weird case. You couldn't use hylian herb there I don't think because that actually seems to give a higher boost to health than the other herbs and flowers.

But following those general guidelines when selecting food and using cases where you get no "crit" bonus, we should be able to come up with the lowest possible effects for each recipe to bestow. It may be that these coorespond perfectly to the cooked effects of each of their base ingredients, but I was of the impression that certain recipes were actually better than the sum of their parts. If this is not the case, and each cooked ingredient effect perfectly matches up with the total recipe effect, then we may as well scrap the column all-together and just focus purely on detailing the cooked effects of each ingredient.

Right now I haven't done enough experimentation to be sure. Can anyone else shed some light on this? Chaotic echo (talk) 17:32, 11 March 2017 (UTC)???

I have my personally documented results of about 115 recipes, as well as about 50 Elixirs. The possible Crits I've found are 1. +3 red hearts, 2. +5 minutes to duration, or 3. increase level (low->mid). I've read that another is to add extra Temp (gold) hearts, but haven't If you take the crits out, every recipe I've done exactly matches what's in the ingredients list. There are some weird ones, like the Silent Princess adds 2 red hearts even though it's base is 0 (instead of the expected 1), but I've documented what I've found on that ingredient list.

I'm kind of to the point where I'm trying to find a recipe that doesn't fit what the expected outcome would be (something better than the sum of their parts). Unless we can document some cases where the expected outcome is wrong, I recommend we do scrap that column each recipe. I'd say we move also move the ingredient list directly above the Cooking Pot recipes too, so it'll be easier to reference, just like I did with the Elixir part. - Protokhal (talk) 05:12, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

You seem to be the most knowledgeable in this area so I will trust your judgement here. Besides, no one else has chimed in and right now this column just looks messy. I'm going to try to phase it out with my next update, and if anyone has a beef with it they can hash it out with us. It would definitely be good to add a section about crits because right now no one else seems to have a lot of information about them. Chaotic echo (talk) 20:04, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

BotW Food Entries

Ideally, in the future, I am of the opinion that there should be no duplicate entries for foods that share the same graphic (icon displayed above the food name). For instance, there do not need to be 12 different entries for the "Mushroom skewer" depending on if it has a hasty effect, sneaky effect, fireproof effect, etc. A single entry will suffice. To do this without losing any information, a new section should be created called "Effects" Detailing all 11 effects capable of being added to foods and the ingredients that will add each effect. The new section should also explain that multiple effects cannot be added to the same food and detail how the game handles cases where users try to add ingredients with more than one effect type.

Once that is done, the duplicate sections can probably be deleted and the entries in the current "Recovery" section could be changed back to the default. The only exception for this might be for foods that only exist in cases where they have added effects. For instance, "Spicy Sauteed Peppers" has no non-spicy alternative. Likewise, if I am correct, Pumpkin Stew and Meat Stuffed Pumpkin will always carry the "Tough" effect. For unique foods that always have the same effect, they could exist in their own sections, but that is up to the discretion of the community editing this document.

It would seem that there is a "first time bonus" added to each recipe the first time that you cook it in game. For each subsequent time that you make that recipe, it will have a lower effect than it did the first time.

To simplify things, recipes should include only the minimum number of ingredients required to cook that recipe and the base heart recovery that food will provide after the "first time bonus" has been granted. A new section should also be made to nail down exactly how the first time bonus mechanics work.

Like Eggwall suggested, another section could be made detailing the base effect each special ingredient has.

Personally, if the information is not already out there on the "Materials" Page, I would like to also add a section listing each base cooking ingredient and their effects. XChaoticEchox (talk) 22:14, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I think the single-ingredient open-flame items should stay in a separate table from all the recipes cooked in a Cooking Pot. I completely agree with the simplification you suggested here, with only the minimum required items to cook a dish being listed. That column should probably be renamed to "Required Ingredients" or "Minimum Ingredients". I was a little over-ambitious in my earlier suggestion to list all possible recipes. That was before I realized how many items and combinations that would be. I'll start removing redundant recipes for the same dish tomorrow, and leave only the required ingredients and their base effect values.

I like the effects sections that was added detailing Hearty, Energizing, Enduring, etc. If we can add the Ingredients that provide that effect as another column there, I think that would be helpful, ie. Spicy Pepper changes a dish to Spicy, Blue Nightshade changes a dish to Sneaky. Also, since a dish can't have multiple effects, we should list the order of what effect takes priority. I don't know if it's static though, like Spicy is always prioritized over Sneaky, or if it has to do with how many ingredients are used. Or is it a chance ratio?

I hadn't heard of the first-time cook bonus. I've cooked dishes with the same ingredients, and they seem to turn out the same as the first cook for me (with the Crit exception below).

If heard that recipes can "Crit" at random and become more effective, and think I did "Crit" once. I made a Apple/Acorn/Bird Egg Omelet that yeilded 7 Hearts, when I was expecting only 4 (1 per Apple, 1 per Acorn, and 2 per Bird Egg). Two subsequent cooks have yielded only 4 Hearts each. This is the only time I know of that I've cooked a dish and had unexpected results. It seems my Crit added 3 Hearts to the total.

Lastly, it seems that Heart Resoration Values are always 2x the uncooked amount of their ingredients when cooked in a Cooking Pot, where open-flame cooking is always 1.5x (with the exception of Dubious Food/Failed Experiments). Has anyone seen otherwise? If that seems to be the standard formula, we can just state "Adding additional ingredients to a recipe will increase Heart Resoration Total by 2x the uncooked amount." I'm guessing there is a similar standard for Stamina and other effects. - Eggwall (talk) 04:43, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Very interesting. I assumed the bonus was a first time because it always seems to have happened for me the first time I tried something new and it worked, but it is possible I was just getting a Crit like you said. Will need to look into this more.

Also, sorry for not clarifying. I agree that we should keep the "foods cooked over an open fire" its own section.

I added the new section for "Effects" at the bottom of the page detailing how each effect works and ingredients that produce each effect. It is currently rough and unfinished. In the future, I would like to

A) Put each ingredient listing into a chart

B) Have that chart have columns for the ingredient description, Cooked effect (time and hearts added), graphics, and anything else useful to display about them

C) Include a separate chart for the "no effect" health-recovery only ingredients

I realize that this might be a bit ambitious and possibly something suited to be its own separate page, but the Materials Wiki page I saw so far was its own disorganized train wreck, and something I would rather not point back to at the moment. I think it would be ideal to list cooking ingredients separate from the rest of the ores/guardian pieces/etc for now.

To further simplify recipes, I suggest using a disambiguation that will make listing them much simpler. For some recipes like the Salmon Meuniere, a particular ingredient is called for. In that case, you cannot cook it without a hearty salmon. But for many recipes, various combinations of ingredients from the same overarching "categories" will produce the same result. For instance, any combination of (land based) meat with any combination of mushroom will produce the meat and mushroom skewer.

Here is my current understanding and breakdown of the different ingredient "classes"

Class	Subclass
Fruit
Mushroom
Herb/Flower
Vegetable
Meat	Bird
	Red Meat
Seafood	Fish
	Crab
Critter
Misc

The sections above are, as far as I can tell, the breakdown. There may be some intricacy that eludes me for now but overall I think this covers it. I split seafood between fish and crabs because there are some recipes specifically that need one of the crab types to be made, but which type of crab doesn't really matter. Miscellaneous covers items like tabantha wheat, goat butter, courser bee honey, and other "special" cases. Usually, though, recipes call for things in this category specifically, so we probably wouldn't use it to classify large groups when specifying them as ingredients.

Edit: Noticed that for making pilafs, it is important to have bird meat rather than red meat so I'm clarifying between them too now. I also realized that there is a Porgy Meuniere as well so Porgy might need to be its own subclass within "Fish"

I Think it would be helpful, if you guys like this, to go ahead and add this breakdown to the wiki, then use the class names to say "Any Mushroom" or "Any Meat" when talking about what ingredients are required to make specific recipes. XChaoticEchox (talk) 05:30, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I think this is exactly what needs to happen. Classify all ingredients that behave the same into a group, and use that group whenever possible. If a more specific ingredient is needed, list the specific ingredient, but when "Any Meat" will work, use the group. That should provide an accurate yet concise listing. Good work. - Eggwall (talk) 06:41, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Raw Edible Materials

I know that in-game, raw "Materials" are stored separate from cooked "Food". Some of the "Materials" are just raw edible items though, and can be eaten to restore Hearts like cooked "Food". I don't want to duplicate entries that exist on the "Materials" page, but I think the edible raw "Materials" should be either:

1. Listed on this page in a separate table as Edible Raw Materials
2. Listed on the Materials page but separated onto their own table that can be easily reference from this Food page.

I guess my real question is should this page list all items that Link can eat, or be strictly limited to entries that are cooked and show up under the "Food" section of the pouch? - Protokhal (talk) 18:32, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Building off xChaoticEchox's concept of classes, here's a rough-draft of how I think they should be listed.

Class	Subclass	Material	Hearts	Effect Class when Cooked	Bonus Effect when Cooked
Fruit		Apple
		Hydromelon		Chilly	Low-Level Heat-Resistance (2:30)
Mushroom		Endura Shroom		Enduring
		Hearty Truffle		Hearty	File:BotW Temporary Heart Icon.png
Vegetable		Hearty Radish		Hearty	File:BotW Temporary Heart Icon.pngFile:BotW Temporary Heart Icon.pngFile:BotW Temporary Heart Icon.png
Meat	Red Meat	Raw Meat
	Bird Meat	Raw Bird Drumstick

- Protokhal (talk) 17:34, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Love it. Saw what you did and it looks great. A couple of points to change might be just naming conventions. I think what I originally called "Bird meat" would probably be better listed as "Poultry" and you were right to add snails as their own category, but it might be good to rename that subclass "Snails" instead of "Other." Of course, it looks like editting has been temporarily closed on the page. I'm worried that is probably largely my fault for making the big cooking pot recipe divide. I did it because I didn't want to delete the existing data that had been collected there as some of the descriptions and recipes did not already exist in their general non-effect forms but it looks like it ruffled some feathers. When it becomes available again, I'm going to try to make the push to transition all of the work from those sections that needs keeping into "Recovery" and phase them out if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

In any event, great work! That new chart has a ton of good information. Chaotic echo (talk) 19:38, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

I put a bunch of suggestions on how to clean this page up on my user page if you want to check them out. I agree that the page was getting a bit unruly but I wanted to make sure to get all the data in here before I started deleting things out. That way I could be sure not to delete things that should have stayed. I'll message Tony and have him take a look too. Protokhal (talk) 20:03, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

I went ahead and added Snails to the Fish column, and renamed it "Fish and Snails". The snails do make "Steamed Fish" when mixed with herbs, so they are treated like fish. I guess we can use "Any Fish/Snail" in a recipe if needed. - Protokhal (talk) 22:31, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

After finishing out the recipes I still think we should move snails into their own separate category. The reason why can be seen if you look at the recipes for Fish Skewers, Seafood Skewers, and Salt-Grilled Fish. While the salt-grilled fish allows you to lump snails in with fish, the seafood skewers couple snails with crabs. It is only one small instance, but it does show that snails do not inherently belong to either category. Chaotic echo (talk) 21:35, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Boiled Egg

When I was editting the recipe ingredients, it came to my attention that this was placed in the "Cooking Pot" section incorrectly. Adding a single egg to a cooking pot produces an omelet. To the best of my knowledge this is a special case where you can only make it by putting an egg in a hot spring. I do not know if it will work if you try cooking it over an open campfire. If it does, it should be moved there, but I really think it is a unique case. So does it deserve its own section? We could have a "Misc" sort of section for "weird" foods, which then dubious food and failed experiment might also fit into. What do you guys think? Chaotic echo (talk) 23:40, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Can any other food be boiled, or is it just the egg? I'd say if it's just the egg, it would go into a special/misc section. Roasting an egg over a campfire yields Campfire Egg, so it's not the same. - Protokhal (talk) 08:42, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, you are right about that. To the best of my knowledge, it is the only case where you can boil food. For now I will place it in its own "Other Recipes" Section with an explanation. Chaotic echo (talk) 16:28, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

About Images

Recently I've gotten some feedback about the food icons that I was uploading. Now that I know the naming standards I will try to stick to those and fix my older entries if I can figure out how, but one issue they mentioned was the resolution. I have been getting all of these icons directly from game screenshots that I posted to twitter from my switch, but they come in the file format jpeg-large and to edit them in photoshop I am having to convert them to regular jpegs. I am worried this is causing resolution to be lost, but if that is the case I am unsure how to edit them in their native jpeg-large format. Can anyone suggest a solution to this? I would prefer to stick to photoshop because it is the tool that I know and its magic wand tool makes cropping easy, but that might not be possible. I would really appreciate any help you could offer. Chaotic echo (talk) 00:05, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Hiding Tables by Default

There is so much data on this page, I think it would be beneficial to hide the lists by default. I think this will make the page more readable as an entire subject on food, and allow a user to see all items only when they'd like. Here's and example of how'd I like to redo the tables. Let me know your thoughts. - Protokhal (talk) 18:09, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

List of Roasted Food Item Description Effect Ingredient Baked Apple Direct heat has softened and sweetened this apple. Eat it to restore three quarters of a heart. Apple

You'd probably be better off using the heading feature instead of nesting tables. Note that some wiki specific CSS or JS is messing with the mw-collapsible feature. Normally the heading is displayed in one row. Still investigating. Molldust (talk) 18:27, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

List of Roasted Food

Item	Description	Effect	Ingredient
Baked Apple	Direct heat has softened and sweetened this apple. Eat it to restore three quarters of a heart.		Apple Food Page Wishlist Currently there are several food-related topics that have yet to be addressed that I'm putting a wishlist out for. Please keep discussion for each contained to each sub-header. Critical Cooking Need info for how cooking pot bonuses work, frequency of bonuses, possible bonus effects, and so on. Blood Moon cooking bonuses might also fall under this category. Currently Protokhal has a lot of good research into cooking bonuses to go off of. Cooking with Fairy Currently missing information about fairies as an ingredient. I know they have the ability to "bless" your food but it would be good to include specific details. Cooking with Monster Extract Monster extract is just weird. I have not yet been able to find any rhyme or reason to it. We currently do not have it listed as an ingredient and should try to figure out why half the time it seems to take all nutritional value out of food, if it does anything else special, etc. Cooking with Dragon Parts Need ingredient entries for all of these and information about what they do when added to food.  ????? Cooking with Star Fragment Need ingredient entry for this and information about what it does when added to food.