FANDOM


Forums: Index Watercooler Boss=Character?

Skull Kid Artwork (Majora's Mask)
Xykeb Zraliv – 3. And the Innkeeper’s guest knew the name of the King.
TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
Ok, is there a particular reason bosses are added to the character categories? I mean, I can understand if the boss talks or something...but seriously, can Armogohma or Molgera be considered characters? They really do nothing but attack Link. This appears to be the general rule, so I don't want to just change it without others' opinions...but why?
GasMaskPsychoHatGuy
AuronKaizer - "Imagination does not breed insanity. Exactly what does breed insanity is reason. Poets do not go mad; but chess-players do. Mathematicians go mad, and cashiers; but creative artists very seldom. I am not, as will be seen, in any sense attacking logic: I only say that this danger does lie in logic, not in imagination."
TALK - THE LIST - GAMES - PIT OF RECKONING - SANDBOX - WALRUS GUMBOOT 08:57, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, also been thinking the same...should only apply to bosses with dialogue or any sort of backstory.
180px-SSBBSpearPillarDialga
Diachronos – So... To become the Hero of Time, we need to go to the Temple of Time, to play the Song of Time, on the Ocarina of Time, in front of the Door of Time, so we can pull the Sword of Time, out of the Pedestal of Time...
TALK TWILIGHT PRINCESS WALKTHROUGH - MY ZELDA GAME
I think the Character label should be reserved for final bosses and the occasional boss that isn't just "there", like Zant and Agahnim.

what about bosses like blind who have a back story and talk but dont play any real role in the overall stry? Oni Dark Link 00:03, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Zant
Ccbermanzzpedia – Walker, Texas Ranger.--Guess
TALK – 00:09, October 11, 2009 (UTC) Timeline My edits ?x?
Hmm.... I don't like the selectiveness of the dialog thing, but I agree.
Skull Kid Artwork (Majora's Mask)
Xykeb Zraliv – 1. And so the Prince who had been the Arrogant Man began his servitude to the King, and the King taught him the nature of Life, and of the true Purification.
TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
Blind I would definitely consider a character. Some bosses like Genie or Shadow Hag that speak one line but have no backstory or bosses like Volvagia that have a backstory but no dialog we'd have to discuss. However, bosses that do nothing but attack Link should not be considered characters.


180px-SSBBSpearPillarDialga
Diachronos – "If Opposite Day truly did exist, then wouldn't that day be the opposite of itself, and be not Opposite Day anyway?" - Gaary, Unforgotten Realms
TALK TWILIGHT PRINCESS WALKTHROUGH - MY ZELDA GAME
I think we should only count bosses who talk AND have a background as characters.
General Onox
EveryDayJoe45 – "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."--Abraham Lincoln
TALK
What about Bongo Bongo who has a backstory and is seen outside of the shadow temple, but never talks?
180px-SSBBSpearPillarDialga
Diachronos – So... To become the Hero of Time, we need to go to the Temple of Time, to play the Song of Time, on the Ocarina of Time, in front of the Door of Time, so we can pull the Sword of Time, out of the Pedestal of Time...
TALK TWILIGHT PRINCESS WALKTHROUGH - MY ZELDA GAME
I think he would because of what we know about him and the theories about him. But I might be a little biased; he's one of my favorite bosses in the series. Kinda ironic because I hate the Shadow Temple...

so a little list of bosses we'll have as characters. Add to it if you can think of anyone Oni Dark Link 12:48, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Thats excluding all final boses or characters who were final bosses. Anyone disagree with them or can think of anyone else.

And these ones we should discuss:

  • Bongo Bongo back story and seen outside of a dungeon
  • Volvagia in debt back story
  • Helmaroc King appears in the story quite a lot and does have an aposing effect but no dialouge (besides screeching)
  • Phantom Ganon wind waker and four swords adventures features him mulitple times making but has no dialouge on any encounters (except voice acted laughing)
  • Fyrus is also a character but has a page for its character
  • Blizzeta same as above
  • Argorok seen several times through out dungeon but has no dialouge or back story


Skull Kid Artwork (Majora's Mask)
Xykeb Zraliv – 8. “Now you must repay me for the slight your arrogance caused me, for despite your insult I love you as I love every Man and beast, and you must learn to take this love into your heart.”
TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
I'm neutral on Bongo Bongo, Volvagia, and Helmaroc King, but Phantom Ganon I simply wouldn't consider a character. No backstory other than that he's a phantom made in Ganondorf's image and no dialog. Also, Vire (Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons) and Master Stalfos, I think at least.

I dont think you can disagree with those two Oni Dark Link 19:27, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

General Onox
EveryDayJoe45 – "Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: "We the people." "We the people" tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us. "We the people" are the driver, the government is the car. And we decide where it should go, and by what route, and how fast. Almost all the world's constitutions are documents in which governments tell the people what their privileges are. Our Constitution is a document in which "We the people" tell the government what it is allowed to do. "We the people" are free."--Ronald Reagan
TALK
To be honest this is going to get too opinionated for its own good. They should probably all be on or all be off. Because What about Eox, he has a backstory. Theres so many maybes I don't know how we could possibly regulate this.
Skull Kid Artwork (Majora's Mask)
Xykeb Zraliv – 2. And the Prince turned to the Woodcutter’s son, and he said “You I shall let live, for you are young and are of the innocent, and that you may go among your people and tell them of what I will wrought.”
TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
We can't do all on or all off. That'll be even more of a mess. Then some bosses that definitely are characters won't be considered characters or some bosses that definitely aren't characters will be. It's just a lose-lose situation. If we manage to reach a concensus on at least some of these then we can make it better, even if it's not completely correct.

it could work if we just go through each boss that could be and see what the majority thinks Oni Dark Link 20:23, October 11, 2009 (UTC)


180px-SSBBSpearPillarDialga
Diachronos – "If Opposite Day truly did exist, then wouldn't that day be the opposite of itself, and be not Opposite Day anyway?" - Gaary, Unforgotten Realms
TALK TWILIGHT PRINCESS WALKTHROUGH - MY ZELDA GAME
Or at least the ones we're unsure about. No sense in having everybody vote on it when we already know that Ganondorf's a character and Diababa isn't.
Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed. -Albert Einstein"
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
Well to start can everyone agree that all the bosses up there on the list are also characters?
Skull Kid Artwork (Majora's Mask)
Xykeb Zraliv – 3. And the Woodcutter’s son fled, and told all of what he had seen, but the Men of Technology are arrogant and his words were unheeded.
TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
Yes.
Malo
MaloMart – The law? The law is a human institution.
TALK Got a need for speed? My Zelda Game My Other Zelda Game The Legend of Zelda Movies The Legend of the Postman Operation: QuoteUnquote Questions
I'd consider the Helmaroc King to be a character. It appears quite a lot in the first half of the game, not just as a boss.
General Onox
EveryDayJoe45 – "I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying."--Michael Jordan
TALK
Well first off the antagonists are definitely characters and final bosses should probably be too if they are seperate entities from the antagonist. Moving on I'd say definites are Twinrova (Ocarina of Time), Twinrova (Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons), Helmaroc King (The Wind Waker), Diabolical Cubus Sisters, Vire (Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons), Grim Creeper, King Bulblin, Deku Scrub Brothers, Garo Master, Ook, Dangoro. Then probables due to strong backstories that i can remember are Volvagia, Queen Gohma, Bongo Bongo, Eox, Gohdan, Odolwa, Jalhalla (The Wind Waker), Death Sword, Stallord, Master Stalfos, Argorok, Blind, Morpha (not sure how, but it is talked about outside of the dungeon). Aside from that I don't know whom else. I don't know what to think of Fyrus or Blizzeta. Surely Darbus and Yeta are characters but I dont know about their boss counterparts.
Skull Kid Artwork (Majora's Mask)
Xykeb Zraliv – 1. Yesterday I saw the Body of the Bridgekeeper engulfed in flame, and I saw the Bridge created by one-third.
TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
I'd consider Gohdan (a moderate amount of dialogue, not just "I'm going to kill you!", but some stuff with actual meaning and importance), Master Stalfos (appears quite a lot, talks quite a lot, plays an antagonistic role in a way other than "you see a big monster and attack it"), and Blind (has a ton of backstory, plays a very antagonistic role in a way other than "you see a big monster and attack it", actually tries to trick you instead of just attacking you) characters. I'm neutral on Volvagia (more backstory than most others; you actually hear quite a lot of his history and background, he's clearly sentient to an extent, but he has no dialogue whatsoever), Queen Gohma (some backstory, presumably sentient to an extent, but has no dialogue whatsoever), Bongo Bongo (a lot of backstory, clearly sentient, but has no dialogue whatsoever), and Argorok (terrorizes you throughout the dungeon, clearly sentient to an extent, but has no dialogue whatsoever). Fyrus and Blizzeta...eh, still not sure about that. If we consider them bosses seperate from the characters Darbus and Yeta, certainly not.
Zant
Ccbermanzzpedia – people here worry to much so dont worry be happy :)
TALK – 23:13, November 2, 2009 (UTC) Timeline My edits ?x?
Xykeb the "all or not at all" most likely doesn't make sense on purpose. I just don't like were this is going. To many "maybes". Because once you remove all the ones that don't have backstory, dialogue, etc. what about the one's like Bongo Bongo? There is to many questions, I don't like how this looks in othere words.
Skull Kid Artwork (Majora's Mask)
Xykeb Zraliv – 1. The third Man who desired judgment was Frehorn, who had bought from those who made luxuries with the wood that was the Prince’s Soul, and against whom the Prince brought down the pain of the Soul. The Prince came and struck down the lover of Frehorn, and Frehorn knew the name of the King.
TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
Sigh....................................

Bongo Bongo has backstory, so he is debatable. If we ever pick this conversation up again, we will likely make a decision about bosses like that. No point in letting it make even less sense just because we're not sure on certain ones.


Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Protect the king, obey the king, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. And what if your father despises the king? What is the king massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do your forsaking one vow or another. - Jaime Lannister"
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
ok how about this. We take the list above and put it forward. If any people disagree with any of them up there then we take the unagreed ones down and discuss them. by majority we decide wether or not to add them. it really isnt that hard.


Skull Kid Artwork (Majora's Mask)
Xykeb Zraliv – 6. And the King said unto the Prince, “As you have willed it, so shall I arrange it, and so when the eight-and-twentieth day of the seventh month occurs, I shall permit you to return to the land of Technology and bring down your judgement upon the Men who have wronged you.”
TALK – it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts
I agree with that.

Just one thing though. Ccbermanzzpedia suggested that if they have any dialogue, backstory, or they appear a lot, they're really pretty similar to minor characters, so he suggested that all of those bosses be considered characters.

Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "Thank you for taking the time to read this sign. This sign loves you."
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
i think for this we should asses every case idividuality
Zant
Ccbermanzzpedia – "Hocus-Pocus, I am Harry Potter and turn you into Fairy :P"--Imature Harry Potter
TALK – 19:36, November 3, 2009 (UTC) Timeline My edits ?x?
OMG no. Every boss in every game? See I akin them to minor characters because even if one only has a little bit of backstory or a little bit of dialouge don't we still consider them characters? That would be really really really boring and a waste of time.
Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "Until the day when God shall deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is summed up in these two words, "Wait and hope"- Edmound Datez, the Count of Monty Cristo"
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
of course were not going to have to look at every single boss. nobody is going to claim that digdogger or aquamantis are characters. No we do what we have done and make a list of possible candiates for a character category and then discuss and either add or remove the tag. And if anyone feels there is a boss that is a character that isnt on the list then they can simply add them and we will discuss further
Zant
Ccbermanzzpedia haha look at this! this is my law!
TALK – 20:00, November 3, 2009 (UTC) Timeline My edits ?x?
Still a bad idea. Anything without dialouge, backstory, etc. really isn't a character, just an enemy, albeit with bosses more powerful.
Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "The funny thing about being smart is you can get though most of life without having to do any work so I'm not sure how to do that. - Jeff Winger"
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
thats why nobody is going to suggest any character without dialouge, backstory or an imposing effect on the story

About Fyrus and Blizzeta, I´m against making ´Character´ pages exclusively for them, since I believe that their part in the story is sufficiently discussed in Darbus´ and Yeta´s character pages, respectively. These two should have just their ´Boss´ pages and a mere descussion of their characters in a ´History´ section.--The Gerudo Guy (talk) 21:55, December 27, 2009 (UTC)The Gerudo Guy

General Onox
EveryDayJoe45 – "Give me Liberty, or give me Death!"--Patrick Henry
TALK
No offense, but you obviously have no clue what we were discussing here.

Im with joe,i have no clue what were even talking abou any more!But also do you think shadow link she be a character or something?Malon_Girl5

Pgans
Pgans12 smileytemplateneoseekersj7.gif Well excuuuuuuuuuuse me, Link!
TALK
Fyrus isn't really a character, its the cheif Goron's corrupted form. Blizzeta is the same, but substitute yeti instead of chief goron. and with Argorok, isn't it possible for a boss to wreak havoc in the region of its dungeon?
Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "Nonsense. There will never be peace until the Bionis is destroyed! Your blade it did not cut deep enough. Permit me to apologies for calling you bugs just now. You proved to be a worthy adversary after all. - Egil"
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
I quickly checked to see wether or not this was actuly done by looking at the category Majora's Mask character and seen that none of the bosses (some mini bosses do) had the tag except Odolwa. Why does is he tagged as a character? Joe mentions him as one of the candidates due to a backstory but what back story does he have? Unless you believe he is the deity or whatever the theory is on the Deku Royal Family page none that I can think of. Its possible he was the one who kiddnapped the Deku Princess but no one names him as the one as far as I remember. Anyone object to him loosing the tag of character?
General Onox
EveryDayJoe45 – "It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."--Abraham Lincoln
TALK
They talk about him kidnapping the princess. And the "deity" is clearly referring to one of the Four Giants.
Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw"
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
They say repeatedly that the Monkey Kidnapped the Princess and when you talk to the monkey himself he says she was kidnapped by a monster which could be any of the enemies in the temple
Pgans
Pgans12 smileytemplateneoseekersj7.gif Well excuuuuuuuuuuse me, Link!
TALK
Well, yeah, he is technically one of the four giants, but the rule/exception I said before about Darbus and Fyrus applies to the other Terminian bosses. I think you should go ahead and remove character tag. But like I also said before; bosses can wreak havoc on their area of dominance and still not be a character, even if they kidnap someone. And in TP, some Bokoblins kidnap a monkey and (I think) Colin, that doesn't make them mini-bosses even. OK, maybe it does, but only for that one occasion and not again ever.
Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "If we're not here to chase squirrels then why are we here? - Guilmon"
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
I think we should wait a bit to see what others have to say
Pgans
Pgans12 smileytemplateneoseekersj7.gif Well excuuuuuuuuuuse me, Link!
TALK
But before we wait, I have one more thing to say. I thought bosses (guardian bosses) were not really allowed to leave the temple/dungeon area. Argorok is still in the City in the Sky when you see him all of the times. It would weaken the seal and/or make them vulnerable. And if you use Bongo-Bongo as an example, I say it was not him that destroyed the village, but him channeling his evil influence into a quasi-corporeal state. Simple version of that= he used his massive power and made a "shadow clone" (if you watch Naruto then you get the concept, if not it is a duplicate of the being that is physically present and can interact with objects/things but disappears shortly) temporarily because he was bound to the temple. If he/it left, Impa would have broken free with the help of the other sages and/or Zelda/Sheik.
General Onox
EveryDayJoe45 – "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."--Earl Wilson
TALK
Oni your just wrong please stop talking. It really pisses me off how you need to argue for the sake of arguing when you make no sense half of the time. I am getting so sick of it and you have no idea. Luckily, today I am in one of my better moods so I can at least respond in a calm manner: "But the temple had become a monster's lair, and the princess was captured by the monster...". You don't think that refers to the boss of the dungeon? Not to mention other references to "monster" throughout. I notice you opted to not include the entire quote, or maybe you just missed it in your attempt to find a problem with everything ever. And also the fact that the Nintendo Power guide clarifies this even further solidifies it is referring to Odolwa, not some random monster.
Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so - Hamlet"
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
I never argue for the sake of arguing and I didnt check a text dump I took from memory what the monkey says but with the full quote referencing a monsters lair and nintendo power's (respected but still non canoical) comment (what ever it might be I dont read Nintendo Power) I see your point. It should however be expanded on on tthe Odolwa article. And Pgans, as far as I seen it Argorox wasn't guarding the Shard he just happend to come into contact with it like Yeta I could be wrong though since its been a almost a year since I played Twilight Princess. And your Bonogo Bongo theory makes no sense, the game makes it very clear that he escaped from the well where he was imprisoned
General Onox
EveryDayJoe45 – "Government is not the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem."--Ronald Reagan
TALK
That just makes matters worse. Do not ever take "what you remember" and apply it to "what is fact". I cannot believe you just admitted that that is what you used as your source for an argument. And Nintendo Power is Nintendo and is arguably cannonical. Nintendo Power does not make guide books anymore, so the recent Prima guides may not be cannonical, but seeing as the older guides are straight from Nintendo, who are you to say they aren't cannonical?
Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam - Carl Sagan"
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
I take anything that isnt in game not full cannoical and I do know many guide books (I group them together because I never use them and dont know the differences) are full of mistakes and self made statements
General Onox
EveryDayJoe45 – "I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying."--Michael Jordan
TALK
Self made statements by the developers of the game... Again who are you to say what is and what is not cannonical. Different localizations of games have different names and explanations for things. Which one is cannonical? Beedle's Japanese name translates to Terry. Should we move the page to that?
Aquamentus (Oracle of Seasons)
Oni Dark Link – "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw"
TALK – {{{time}}}~ evaluations reviews walkthrough
I can determin what I believe is cannoical and what is not. Many people take things say in guides that dont make sense as true when in game evidence proves otherwise (the ones that spark to mind is that Jabu Jabu is Jabun and the wall masters in Ikana Castle but I am not going to argue them here) and thats fine bcause they believe that said things are cannoical. Anyway this page isnt about canonicity its about what bosses are alse characters and from what this little discussion seems to have done is included an imposing effect on the story as one of the characteristics of a character boss
General Onox
EveryDayJoe45 – "I figured that if I said it enough, I would convince the world that I really was the greatest."--Muhammad Ali
TALK
Don't give me the "guides contradict games" argument because games themselves contradict other games. Do I personally think the guides are as connonical as the games? no and as a wiki we generally apply this to the wiki as a whole (not always as names are often taken from guides). But at the same time, that is just a general concept we use and I generally dislike how you feel you know what information from Nintendo is correct and try to use that in arguments. Truth is arguing with you is hopeless because the only thing that works is insulting you because otherwise you will continue rambling with your own brand of logic. Video games are not real. In truth they are ideas thought up by a group of people (in this case Nintendo). So there is not always going to be one side to a story. You need to stop arguing as if there is. Now I am done because if I hear any more of your ideas I'm going to explode (note this is not just from this argument but is a build up of all your crap I've heard from you in the past).

Wow... calm down people... I think I agree with Oni. I think. To be honest this is getting hard to follow. But I'm against deciding on everything individually. Oh, and Argorok is NOT a character.Hylianhero777 (talk) 21:58, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

General Onox
EveryDayJoe45 – "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."--Earl Wilson
TALK
And you are NOT supposed to be commenting on 3 months old conversations that have already been decided and acted upon.

What? 3 month old? then why did it appear on my recently commented on list? You know the ones that are in blue?Hylianhero777 (talk) 20:30, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ad blocker interference detected!


Wikia is a free-to-use site that makes money from advertising. We have a modified experience for viewers using ad blockers

Wikia is not accessible if you’ve made further modifications. Remove the custom ad blocker rule(s) and the page will load as expected.